The following Sisters of St. Joseph who are celebrating 80-, 70-, 60-, 50- and 25-year anniversaries in 2004
reflect on their ministries in their own words.
Sister Mary Linus Witukiewicz entered the Sisters of St. Joseph from St. Casimir Parish in Elmira. She taught
at St. Stanislaus, Rochester; St. Casimir, Elmira; and St. Mary, Dansville. She also was a visitor to the sick and
sacristan. She is currently serving in the prayer ministry at the motherhouse.
“My first mission was to St. Stanislaus Parish where I taught for 33 years. Even though the classes were large in
those days (sometimes as many as 62), I liked teaching very much. I enjoyed the simple goodness of the children.
“Next, I served in St. Mary’s School in Dansville, as teacher and parish visitor. Twenty-five more years went by!
“My commitment has always been maintained through prayer, and even now my good health enables me to pray in my
favorite place – our chapel.”
Sister Bernice Benner (formerly Sister Rosalia) entered the con- gregation from St. Paul of the Cross Parish
in Honeoye Falls. In her education ministry, she taught in Rochester at Sacred Heart, St. Ambrose, St. Monica, St.
Francis Xavier, St. Theodore, Holy Rosary and Nazareth Hall. She also taught at St. Paul, Oswego; St. Mary,
Waterloo; St. Alphonsus, Auburn; St. James, Waverly; and St. Patrick, Seneca Falls. She is currently involved in
volunteer services at the motherhouse.
“It was early in life when I began to think of religious life. My twin sister and I had good times in high school
but we each felt in the midst of all of this there was emptiness – ‘What is life all about?'”
“We lived in Honeoye Falls, and one Sunday on our way into Rochester with my parents and siblings we passed the
Sisters of St. Joseph Motherhouse. Outside the gate there were two sisters standing. I felt this deep attraction —
to know more. Later that night, my twin sister and I were talking, and found that we had both experienced the same
feelings! After getting to know the Sisters of St. Joseph during our remaining years in high school, we entered the
congregation after graduation.
“Life in community brought many blessings. There I could share my joys and sorrows. Suffering was made easier and
joy became brighter. I continue to feel the support of my sisters!”
Sister Barbara Hughes (formerly Sister Euphemia) served in the education ministry following her entrance into
the order from St. Patrick in Mt. Morris. Her teaching assignments included Sacred Heart, Holy Apostles, St. Francis
Xavier, St. Ambrose and Guardian Angels schools in Rochester; St. Mary, Dansville; St. Mary, Canandaigua; St. Mary,
Auburn; St. Stephen, Geneva; and Ss. Peter and Paul and St. Anthony, both in Elmira. She also served as hairdresser
for her sisters at the motherhouse and is presently in the prayer ministry.
Of Sister Barbara, Sister St. Luke Hardy writes, “Sister Barbara touched many lives within and outside the
congregation through her unique ministry. Today she continues her loving care for others through her ministry of
Sister Ruth Magin (formerly Sister John Mary) taught at Blessed Sacrament School and Nazareth Academy, both
in Rochester, after she became a Sister of St. Joseph, having entered the congregation from Holy Apostles Parish in
Rochester. She now serves in the prayer ministry at the motherhouse.
Her colleague, Sister Melita Burley, writes, “Sister Ruth will be remembered as a woman with a song in her heart, a
spring in her step and a deep love for God.
“During her 48 years as teacher at Nazareth Academy, she influenced hundreds of students with her warm enthusiasm
and gentle humor. A former student recalled, ‘It was through Sister Ruth that I first came to know Jesus as a
“When reminded of her 70 years of ‘Jubilee,’ her simple response is one of amazement, wonder and
Sister Elizabeth Mandell (formerly Sister Theophane) taught at Immaculate Conception and St. Bridget schools,
at the former St. Mary’s Boys Home and at St. Joseph’s Villa, all in Rochester. She then served as a social worker
at the Villa. A native of Holy Apostles Parish in Rochester, she is presently in the congregation’s prayer ministry.
“My first ministries were teaching at Immaculate Conception and St. Bridget’s Schools. Then I was assigned to St.
Mary’s Boys Home, which along with St. Patrick’s Girls Home merged to become St. Joseph’s Villa. I taught there in
the living room of the cottage until the Villa school was built. I loved being with the children!
“In later years, I studied to become a social worker at Catholic University in Washington. I returned to St.
Joseph’s Villa in my new role. Helping clients and their families was never a chore for me. I was happy to be able
to ease the transition of clients from their homes to living for a time at St. Joseph’s Villa where I could watch
them grow and mature.”
Sister Mary Audrey Mazzeo, currently in the congregation’s prayer ministry, entered the Sisters of St. Joseph
from her home parish of St. Francis of Assisi in Auburn. She served in financial services at St. Joseph’s Villa,
Rochester; St. Joseph’s Hospital, Elmira; and St. Ann’s Home in Rochester.
“I spent almost 30 years of my religious life living and working at St. Joseph’s Hospital in Elmira. What I remember
most was the importance the administrators placed on kindness and compassion for patients. My work was primarily
secretarial — and I shall never forget 1972 when the Chemung and Susquehanna Rivers flooded Elmira, and my job was
to salvage all the records!
“But there are other happier memories – celebrations that would rouse me to harmonize with the singing, even get up
to dance! The celebration of the Sisters of St. Joseph’s 150th anniversary coinciding with my own jubilee year
enhances my rejoicing and gratitude for my life in this
Sister Agnes Catherine Battersby, a native of St. Patrick Parish, Elmira, served in the teaching ministry at
the former St. Agnes elementary and high schools, Aquinas Institute and Nazareth Academy, all in Rochester; DeSales
High School, Geneva; St. Mary, Canandaigua; and St. Patrick, Corning. In addition to serving as principal at St.
Mary, Canandaigua, she was a member of the congregation’s central administration and pastoral assistant at St. James
in Waverly. She now is pastoral associate for the St. Felix/St. Francis Cluster in Clifton
“It was at graduation from St. Patrick’s grammar school that I first recall thinking that I might be blessed with a
religious vocation. In 1944 I joined the Sisters of St. Joseph.
“Though I loved every place I’ve been and appreciate all the people with whom I have worked, I am most grateful for
my opportunities in parish ministry. This work has enabled me to be involved in the special moments of joy and
sorrow in the lives of many people, to be strengthened and enriched in my own faith, by their
Sister Ann d’Assisi Donofrio joined the Sisters of St. Joseph from St. Francis of Assisi Parish in Rochester.
In her educational ministry, she has taught at St. Francis Xavier, Our Lady of Lourdes, St. Ambrose, and Nazareth
Hall, all in Rochester; St. Mary and Ss. Peter and Paul in Elmira; Immaculate Conception, Ithaca; and St. Jerome,
East Rochester. She is presently a teacher and cafeteria director/manager at Nazareth Hall.
“I used to watch the sisters from old St. Patrick’s Cathedral walk down Broad Street. I was drawn by their
friendliness, and decided to become a Sister of St. Joseph.
“When I entered I expected to teach, and my work with children continues to be very fulfilling. Whether in Ithaca,
Corning, Elmira or Rochester, I have enjoyed teaching, singing and the blessing of preparing children for First
“I have been supported by my sisters in community in so many ways. It has been a privilege to be a part of the
Sisters of St. Joseph who have, through the years, given so much to our church and society.”
Sister Helen Goschke (formerly Sister Francis Helen) entered the congregation from Holy Redeemer Parish,
Rochester. In her educational ministry, she has taught at Immaculate Conception, St. Agnes Grammar, St. Francis
Xavier, Holy Rosary, Most Precious Blood, St. Augustine and Our Lady of Perpetual Help schools, all in Rochester;
Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Brockport; St. Rose, Lima; St. John the Evangelist, Spencerport; and in the CCD
program of the former King Ferry/Scipio Rural Ministry. Following pastoral-assistant roles at St. Margaret Mary in
Rochester and Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Brockport, she joined the prayer ministry at the motherhouse.
“I knew from the beginning that I wanted to be a teacher, and I spent many years in parochial schools,
religious-education programs, RCIA adult classes, and in rural education in Kings Ferry, N.Y.
“My second career as a pastoral assistant lasted for 23 years! I made many wonderful friends during my time at St.
Margaret Mary’s Church, Rochester, and at Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary Church, Brockport.
“I can truthfully say that I have enjoyed every minute as a member of the congregation, and that I am thankful to
the Lord for all his gifts to me.”
Sister Marion Gundell taught at St. Ambrose and St. Augustine, both in Rochester; and St. Aloysius in Auburn
following her entrance into the congregation from Holy Rosary Parish, Rochester. She was then a social worker and
cottage mother at St. Joseph’s Villa and director of social work at St. Ann’s Home, both in Rochester. She presently
is in the congregation’s prayer ministry.
“Influenced by my aunt, Sister Adelaide, and by the sisters of Holy Rosary Parish and Nazareth Academy, I pursued my
childhood dream of entering the convent.
“After studying at Catholic University for my degree in social work, I was assigned first to St. Joseph’s Villa,
then to St. Ann’s Home where, in 1961, I was the only social worker. When I left St. Ann’s some 20 years later there
were nine of us!
“From St. Ann’s I moved to the Sisters of St. Joseph Motherhouse and now, in my retirement, I enjoy walking in the
sunshine, The New York Times and my many friends.”
Entering the Sisters of St. Joseph from her home parish of St. Ambrose, Rochester, Sister Sheila Luber taught
at Nazareth Hall, Blessed Sacrament, St. Monica, Holy Apostles, St. Stanislaus and Sacred Heart, all in Rochester;
St. Alphonsus, Auburn; and St. Mary, Canandaigua. She is currently liaison officer for ABC Headstart at St.
“Ministry for me has been working together with parents, teachers and students to bring about the best for the
children. My inspiration came from sisters who taught me.
“Meantime, living in community – praying together, supporting each other – has helped me become the person God has
called me to be. I always wanted to be a Sister of St. Joseph, and I am proud to be among those who continue to
reach out to people far and near.”
Prior to being a cottage supervisor at St. Joseph’s Villa, Sister Lily Ann McBride (formerly Sister Matthew
Marie) was in the food-service ministry at Nazareth College, the congregation’s motherhouse and convent
infirmary, and at the convent of Blessed Sacrament Parish, all in Rochester. She joined the Sisters of St. Joseph
from her home parish of St. Monica, Rochester, and is now manager of the order’s Cornerstone Crafts Gift
“Sixty years creates a long trip down memory lane! Thinking of my ministry in our motherhouse kitchen, working there
with the novices, triggers memories of hard work and lots of good laughs!
“Another of my ministries was driving our infirm sisters to their appointments. It was a wonderful experience
sharing their joys when the doctor’s news was good, and being present to them in the face of sorrow.
“I thank God for calling me to be a Sister of St. Joseph, and for giving me so many opportunities over these years.”
Sister Mary Brigid McCarthy, presently a receptionist at the visitors desk at St. Joseph’s Hospital and an
aide at Holy Family Junior High School, both in Elmira, entered the Sisters of St. Joseph from her home parish of
St. Mary, Elmira. In her teaching ministry, she served at Holy Rosary, Nazareth Hall, St. Anne, and St. Theodore,
all in Rochester; St. Stephen, Geneva; and at St. Mary and St. Patrick Junior High, both in Elmira. She was also
parish visitor and learning assistant at St. Casimir and Holy Family Junior High in Elmira.
“I feel blessed to be a part of this congregation and am grateful to God for calling me to serve as a Sister of St.
“It was my fifth-grade teacher, Sister Marie Ren√© Pegnam, who made me aware of the possibility of becoming a sister.
Once I entered, I felt that this, whatever it would bring, was where I wanted to be, doing whatever was asked of me.
I still feel that way.”
Sister Dorothy Mulcahy (formerly Sister Agnes James) became of Sister of St. Joseph from her home parish,
Holy Apostles, in Rochester. Her educational ministry took her to St. Patrick, Mt. Morris; St. Stephen, Geneva; St.
Mary, Canandaigua; Ss. Peter and Paul, Elmira; St. Michael, Penn Yan; St. Mary, Dansville; and St. Augustine and
Christ the King, both in Rochester. She was also a housemother at St. Joseph’s Villa. She then became a nurse,
ministering at St. Joseph’s Hospital in Elmira, where she also was an instructor in the School of Nursing. She later
was a hospice nurse at St. Mary’s Hospital in Rochester and a pastoral associate at Our Lady of Lourdes in Elmira.
She is currently a hospice volunteer at Serenity House is Victor.
“My celebration of 60 years is one of heartfelt THANKSGIVING, to the Sisters of St. Joseph, for their patience, for
making my dreams come through, to all the sisters I have lived with, times remembered, tears we shed, classes we
taught, and on and on. I could not have made it without the love and care of my God.”
Sister Walter Anne O’Malley entered the Sisters of St. Joseph from her home parish of St. Stephen in Geneva.
She served in the education ministry at St. Francis Xavier, Sacred Heart and St. Pius Tenth, all in Rochester; and
at St. Alphonsus and Blessed Trinity in Auburn. She was also director of junior sisters for the congregation. She is
presently in the prayer ministry at the motherhouse.
“It all began for me in Geneva, the place where I grew up, and the place where some of my fondest memories still
linger. It has been said that we learn best from those we love, and I dearly loved the Sisters of St. Joseph who
“During moments of quiet and prayer <#133> I eventually yielded to the invitation to serve the Lord. And so I came,
I stayed, and the past 60 years with all their upsets and blessings have graced me with more joy and more peace of
heart than I believed could be possible.”
Entering the congregation from Holy Rosary Parish in Rochester, Sister Dorothy Therese Schropp taught at St.
Ambrose, St. Monica, Our Lady of Perpetual Help and St. Augustine, all in Rochester; St. Paul, Oswego; St. Mary,
Elmira; St. Patrick, Mt. Morris; and St. Joseph, Wayland. She now serves at the motherhouse in the prayer ministry.
“It wasn’t until I attended Holy Rosary elementary school that I discovered the wonderful Sisters of St. Joseph. The
happiness I felt with my sister-teachers remained with me throughout my entire education, and inspired in me a
desire to become a Sister of St. Joseph.
“Now in my jubilee year I am again so grateful: for the support and love I experienced in community; for the
wonderful priests and religious who have inspired me; for being able to live out the rest of my life at our new
motherhouse; and, most of all, for God’s graces.”
Following service as a cottage supervisor at St. Joseph’s Villa in Rochester, Sister Jeanne Smith (formerly
Sister Jeanne Louise), a native of Rochester’s Holy Rosary Parish, worked in the food-service ministry at Holy
Rosary, St. Anne and Sacred Heart, all in Rochester. Among her current ministries at Sacred Heart Parish in
Rochester, she enjoys teaching ceramics.
“After a happy, fun-filled novitiate, I set out to my first ministry at St. Joseph’s Villa. There, I was responsible
for 24 boys, many of whom had had very hard lives.
“Following a variety of ministry assignments over the years, I came finally to Sacred Heart Cathedral where I
prepare meals for the sisters. During my years at Sacred Heart I learned the art of ceramics. Later I was asked to
teach this craft, which I enjoy doing to this present day.
“God has given me many blessings these past 60 years.”
In addition to being a teacher, Sister Kathleen Burns (formerly Sister Caritas) has served as a BOCES
interpreter for the deaf and a director of the Rochester chapter of Agreg√©, the congregation’s associate members
program. After joining the order from Sacred Heart Parish, Rochester, she taught at St. Ambrose, Our Lady of Good
Counsel, St. Thomas More, St. Theodore, Corpus Christi and St. Agnes High School, all in Rochester.
“The Sisters of St. Joseph have been a part of my experience since my earliest memories — from family members who
were sisters to teachers from first grade through college.
“Reflecting on these past years which have had their fill of joys and sorrows, I thank God for all — for the people
who have been a part of my life, for their prayers and loving support. And I am thankful for God’s kindness to me
and for God’s understanding, gentle heart.”
Sister Josette Capozzi entered the Sisters of St. Joseph from her home parish of St. Mary in Elmira. In her
education ministry, she served at Immaculate Conception, St. Bridget, Christ the King, Holy Apostles, Holy Rosary
and St. Francis Xavier schools, all in Rochester; and at Queen of Peace and St. Elizabeth schools in Selma, Ala. She
has been a pastoral assistant at St. Francis in Phelps, and, in Alabama, at St. Michael in Heron Bay and St. Vincent
de Paul in Mobile. She has also been an associate chaplain at the Newark Development Center and is currently
ministering at Blessed Sacrament Parish in Tallahassee, Fla.
“Memories that float to the surface of these past 50 years as a religious are of challenging, yet fulfilling
ministries: serving as principal of the first integrated Catholic elementary school in Selma, Ala.; working in
Newark, N.Y., in the office of Mental Retardation and Developmental Disabilities; ministering to the very poor in
Mon Luis Island, Bellefontaine, Dauphin Island, and Heron Bay, Ala.
“Though I live at a distance from my home in Rochester, I am very aware of the prayer and concern of my sisters in
community. Being a member of the Sisters of St. Joseph has been helpful as I tried to live a life of charity,
humility, justice and faithfulness.”
Sister Janet Connorton (formerly Sister Marcella) of Sacred Heart Parish in Rochester, taught at St. Anne,
St. Ambrose and the former St. Agnes High School, all in Rochester, and at DeSales High School in Geneva. After
serving as pastoral agent in Goiania, Brazil, she began her present ministry as activities director at the Pine
Apple Community Center in Pine Apple, Ala.
“In March of my senior year at Nazareth Academy, I started to think about becoming a Sister of St. Joseph, but it
took another eight months for my actions to catch up with my heart. After graduation, I attended Nazareth College,
and through my friendship with then-postulant Sister Barbara Lum, further developed my interest in religious life.
By November, I officially wanted to enter, sought an interview and came to the convent (late as usual) in December.
“When I entered, I hoped to become an art teacher. This dream materialized and grew over 30 years. While living in
Geneva, I also became involved in parish liturgy and choir.
“My first years were full of joy and tears – as were the next 25. And now my jubilee and the 150th anniversary of
the Sisters of St. Joseph coincide. Will this be a landmark in my life? Ask me in 10 more years!”
Sister Ann Lafferty (formerly Sister Adelaide) is health insurance coordinator for the Sisters of St. Joseph
of Rochester. Having entered the congregation from St. Thomas the Apostle Parish in Rochester, she taught at Corpus
Christi, Sacred Heart, St. Monica, St. Bridget, Nazareth Academy, Hope Hall and Nazareth Hall, all in Rochester, and
at St. Michael in Penn Yan. She has also been a pastoral agent in Uberlandia, Brazil.
“Starting at grade one, Sisters of St. Joseph have been a part of my life. So, when it became clear to me that I had
a religious vocation, it was only natural that I enter this congregation.
“It is very simply the grace of God which has brought me to this point. I feel my life has been very blessed.”
After entering the Sisters of St. Joseph from Sacred Heart Parish in Rochester, Sister Barbara Lum (formerly
Sister Eleanor) pursued a career in nursing. She served at St. Joseph’s Hospital in Elmira and Good Samaritan
Hospital in Selma, Ala. Returning to Rochester, she taught in the School of Nursing at the University of Rochester
and was a nurse practitioner at Corpus Christi Health Center. She is currently an educational specialist in the
Certified Nursing Program at the Rochester Educational Opportunity Center.
“Influenced by my teachers at Sacred Heart School and at Nazareth, I entered religious life, and had the privilege
of studying nursing. My assignment to Good Samaritan Hospital and St. Elizabeth Convent in Selma, Ala., coincided
with the peak of the civil rights movement and the Selma march for voting rights for black citizens.
“After returning to Rochester, challenges and rich relationships continued to be a part of my ministry. For 27
years, I taught at the University of Rochester School of Nursing. For the last 15 years, I have worked in
Rochester’s inner city Baby Love program, an outreach to pregnant and parenting women at risk of having a
“Living this commitment, I believe, is only possible with God’s grace and the strong example and support of many
Sister Diane Muldoon (formerly Sister Celina) entered the Sisters of St. Joseph from St. Mary Parish, Auburn.
After teaching at Holy Rosary and Sacred Heart schools in Rochester and at St. Mary in Elmira, she became a cottage
supervisor at St. Joseph’s Villa. She is currently the Villa’s director of support services.
“During my 50 years I have had the privilege to walk with Sisters of St. Joseph. They are women of great wisdom and
“My first ministry was teaching – in both Rochester and Elmira. Though I was enjoying teaching, the request came to
me to be a cottage ‘mother’ at St. Joseph’s Villa. So I became supervisor for eight young boys – living with and
caring for children who had many needs. This was both a challenge and a joy.
“As the Villa continued to expand services, administration asked me to become the director of support services and
centralized purchasing. I continue now in this role.”
Sister Benita Nicholas, currently supervisor of adult programs at the School of the Holy Childhood, entered
the congregation from St. Mary Parish in Auburn. In her teaching ministry, she served in Rochester at Holy Rosary
and St. Stanislaus schools and at the School of the Holy Childhood. She also taught at St. James,
“I was in the seventh grade at St. Mary’s School in Auburn when I knew that religious life was my vocation. The
sisters at St. Mary’s were welcoming women of laughter, fun, playfulness – and they were very good teachers. It was
their lifestyle that drew me to the Sisters of St. Joseph.
“Like the sisters who first influenced me, I have always been involved in education – first as a teacher and then
for the past 30 years as the supervisor of the adult day training program at the School of the Holy Childhood – a
program for those with developmental disabilities. I loved all of my ministries.
“In my community I continue to be surrounded by faithful women, willing to give their very best in service to all
A wide variety of teaching assignments has comprised Sister Jacqueline Robinson’s ministry in education.
Having entered the Sisters of St. Joseph from St. Cecilia Parish in Elmira as Sister Constantia, she served at St.
John the Evangelist in Greece and at St. Monica, St. Augustine, St. Anthony of Padua, Our Lady of Perpetual Help and
St. Ambrose schools, all in Rochester. She also taught at St. Agnes, Avon; St. Anthony, Elmira; St. Mary,
Canandaigua; St. Patrick, Corning; St. Stephen, Geneva; St. Mary, Auburn; St. Michael, Penn Yan; Immaculate
Conception, Ithaca; and DeSales High School in Geneva. She is presently parish secretary at St. Anthony of Padua in
“In my senior year, I came to Nazareth College for a scholarship exam and visited the Sisters of St. Joseph
Motherhouse. That visit settled my vocation.
“For me the journey has been one of much joy and many lasting friendships.”
Sister Rita Rutzke, who entered the congregation from St. Casimir Parish in Elmira, has taught at St.
Stanislaus, Nazareth Hall and Our Lady of Good Counsel in Rochester; the BOCES Forman Center, Fairport; St. Patrick,
Seneca Falls; St. Mary our Mother, Horseheads; St. Mary and Ss. Peter and Paul, in Elmira; and Immaculate Conception
in Ithaca. She currently serves in the congregation’s motherhouse services.
“I am grateful for the heritage that is mine as a Sister of St. Joseph of Rochester. I am grateful for the gift of
friends, education, opportunity and ministry; for the challenges, encouragement and support that exists among us,
empowering us to grow as church, as religious, as people. I can’t believe it has been 50 years already. My life has
been so rewarding.”
Sister Mary Louise Mitchell of St. Patrick Parish in Corning has pursued a career ministry in nursing as a
Sister of St. Joseph. She has been a nurse at St. Joseph’s Hospital in Elmira, a professor of nursing at Nazareth
College and has served in the SSJ Spirituality Ministry. She is currently serving as a councilor on the
congregation’s leadership team.
“Being a Sister of St. Joseph is one of the greatest gifts of my life.
“Many people think individuals who enter religious life have had to ‘give up’ so much. My response to this is that
religious life is a pearl and that those of us who discover this pearl have received a tremendous gift. The gift is
community, and it is through this gift that I am best able to live out my baptismal commitment. It is my belief that
every way of life is a pearl. Each of us has to discern which pearl God desires for us. Once we have discovered this
– God does the rest.”
Sister Marlene Pape entered the Sisters of St. Joseph from Our Lady of Lourdes Parish in Utica. She has
ministered in nursing at the Monroe County Health Department and Nazareth Academy in Rochester and at St. Joseph’s
Hospital in Elmira. She is now a chemical dependency counselor at Park Ridge Hospital in Rochester.
“When I joined the Sisters of St. Joseph, I was a registered nurse and graduate student. I had good friends,
financial resources and a challenging profession. Still, I was looking for a deeper purpose in my
“When my college chaplain introduced me to the Sisters of St. Joseph, I met women who were genuinely happy with
their lives, supportive of one another and committed to ministry.
“My ministries have given me opportunities to be an agent of healing. From home-care nursing with critically-ill
children to my present ministry as a chemical-dependency counselor, I’ve had the privilege of working with people
during some of the most difficult times in their lives.
“With gratitude, I recall that all of this is exactly what I was looking for at the beginning of this